tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post8539007495278456008..comments2023-06-30T05:50:33.242-07:00Comments on philosiology: Myth: Philosophers, Especially Academic Ones, Have an Easy Lifekatiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06917172986615727671noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-64095049039693103572011-07-07T08:09:47.248-07:002011-07-07T08:09:47.248-07:00I took ten years to finish a phd at a non-top tier...I took ten years to finish a phd at a non-top tier Leiter school with no funding and graduated 170k in debt. It took ten years and by the end I was teaching eleven courses a year. It was incredibly hard, brutal at times and therapy helped. But I spent and now spend my life doing what I love and persevered. I ended up getting a tenure track job the the year I finished at a respectable small liberal arts school. I remember a realization I once had that I shared with an older philosopher at that school who went , funded, to a top-tier school. It occurred to me that, even if I hadn't received a job in philosophy doing what I love, I still would have done it all over again. To spend ten years of my adult life reading, discussing such fundamental issues with brilliant colleagues, and to have all of that time to actually become educated in ideas... what an amazing gift. I can't believe I was haunted by not choosing law school during the harder moments. And you kids are bitching about going to grad schools where you are funded? You probably shouldn't go into philosophy...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-44591819772744408192011-05-27T06:48:22.650-07:002011-05-27T06:48:22.650-07:00Surely all of these stages apply more generally to...Surely all of these stages apply more generally to the academic job process? I'd be interested to know as to what about these stages is specific to philosophers...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-14306493003409475482011-04-26T15:14:53.912-07:002011-04-26T15:14:53.912-07:00Haha it's not self-righteous if it's true....Haha it's not self-righteous if it's true.Sarahttp://saragoeswest.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-41401868746324449302011-04-25T23:09:38.235-07:002011-04-25T23:09:38.235-07:00Rory, I know how you feel. I love philosophy, but ...Rory, I know how you feel. I love philosophy, but I don't know if I'm that much of a masochist for grad school, nor am I certain that I want to be a teacher. Although my college professor is seems to be dead set on it. I think if she could afford to pay the tuition for me, she would, lol. Making that much of a commitment is rather terrifying.Keenanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-66224447205908935282011-04-25T07:23:22.688-07:002011-04-25T07:23:22.688-07:00RC, I hate Texas so much for several reasons (1) T...RC, I hate Texas so much for several reasons (1) The weather is terrible, (2) the vegetation is unattractive and terrible, (3) half of the creatures here could kill me, (4) huge, flying cockroaches, (5) everything we try to plant in the killer-ground dies, (6) Rick Perry, particularly his education policies, (7) the self-righteous "Texas is the greatest place EVER" attitude that almost every Texans has, (8) conservative politics, (9) open racism.<br /><br />Etc.katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06917172986615727671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-1828059420940689002011-04-24T18:05:42.953-07:002011-04-24T18:05:42.953-07:00Although I already knew all of this, I had been in...Although I already knew all of this, I had been in denial for some time until it was shattered by your post.<br /><br />Now I'm going to read some papers to make myself feel better.Komalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-36227797648613155512011-04-23T14:18:03.734-07:002011-04-23T14:18:03.734-07:00Why do you hate Texas so much?Why do you hate Texas so much?RCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-35056114378802340672011-04-23T12:13:46.921-07:002011-04-23T12:13:46.921-07:00You forgot the most all consuming part of the grad...You forgot the most all consuming part of the grad school application process: the writing sample. The writing sample, which you are told over and over again is by far the most important part of your application, which is somehow supposed to be representative of your life-long potential as a philosopher, which is supposed to be the very best thing you are capable of producing... and which is subsequently seemingly impossible to write. <br /><br />Along with the truly staggering competition one faces, and the total absence of any reliable indicator of one's chances of admittance, I think the pressure of producing a writing sample sets the philosophy grad school application process apart from those of many other disciplines. I've heard from many hopeful philosophers that this can be difficult for their family/friends/etc. to understand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-30762217629494180802011-04-21T20:31:47.513-07:002011-04-21T20:31:47.513-07:00Just stumbled across your blog. The truths here m...Just stumbled across your blog. The truths here made me laugh. And cry. And then, contemplate leaping from some very high place. But who would take care of my books?<br /><br />To those fancying a PhD run in these days of degenerate dharma, I really have to say: Don't do it!<br /><br />Keep up the good work.Theodric the Obscurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18201793290118146978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-61145161742164714432011-04-21T17:59:48.416-07:002011-04-21T17:59:48.416-07:00I think the dire picture painted is truly importan...I think the dire picture painted is truly important, since the minority succeed in this profession. Yet let me say a few positive things. Full disclosure: I got a TT job this year. But the scary job search process had me reflecting on the past six years of grad school and whether it was all worth it. I like to think that even if I didn't succeed on the market, I would not regret the choice to get a PhD in philosophy. <br /><br />Here's why: I spent my twenties engaging in hard core intellectual activities that have shaped who I've become, made me a better thinker and a better person. I do not know who I'd be if I hadn't studied philosophy at the grad level and I am grateful for the intellectual tools I have now. I have no debt from doing so. (Yes, there is opportunity cost, however). Despite the hard work load and there is lots of time for socializing and meeting awesome people. I think I had way more fun and freedom in my twenties than I would have had in a traditional job. So I think that if you can imagine not regretting it all when it's all done and you haven't gotten a job, then you might be a candidate for philosophy grad school. You should definitely try to get into a top 20 program, and absolutely must have full funding. I think too many philosophers focus on how they are victims--but full funding to get a PhD is a true privilege and if you can score this, then it is worth consideration.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-83177013872067750662011-04-21T15:42:02.778-07:002011-04-21T15:42:02.778-07:00I have a philosopher myself, who I met during phas...I have a philosopher myself, who I met during phase 3. I can say that this post accurately describes my 2nd hand experiences as well. I also agree with thosed who have expressed the horror that is the job market.<br /><br />As to hose who wonder "is it really that bad?" I would answer with two things: a) compared to what? Most philosophers no nothing else, so there's no baseline for them to compare it against. b) Yes, it is that bad, and probably worse. Speaking as someone who works in the non-academic world and has a good idea about the job search both academic and non-academic, I say yes. The academic job search process is beyond inefficient, especially for the job seeker.<br /><br />It makes me wonder, especially for the philosophers, why they haven't figured out a better approach. Or maybe they have thought about it and the problem is in implemementing it.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04993042995031313585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-82085042601145807692011-04-21T14:58:55.328-07:002011-04-21T14:58:55.328-07:00Lauren, I love your reference to Texas as a "...Lauren, I love your reference to Texas as a "dear old goon of a state."katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06917172986615727671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-41499911687956672082011-04-21T14:38:33.021-07:002011-04-21T14:38:33.021-07:00I lived in ATX for 6 years and loved it! I was ver...I lived in ATX for 6 years and loved it! I was very sad to leave, and I think most of the rest of Texas is beautiful, with some exceptions. Though, obviously politically it is one of the scariest places on earth. Still I find myself needing to defend that dear old goon of a state, however my Philosopher might beg to differ.Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17902750142828658787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-18913678300334056222011-04-21T09:13:47.145-07:002011-04-21T09:13:47.145-07:00Rory, Austin is a very cool city, but the rest of ...Rory, Austin is a very cool city, but the rest of Texas sucks. I would leave Austin behind for a ticket to get out of Texas.katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06917172986615727671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-76561310633825565902011-04-21T09:06:57.826-07:002011-04-21T09:06:57.826-07:00I've heard it all a thousand times before, so ...I've heard it all a thousand times before, so I ain't mad. I appreciate the honesty. <br /><br />I wouldn't be too sad to end up in Texas though. Although I'm from the <br />UK, everything about Austin (the Uni and the city) makes it sound like it'd be a dream place for me.Tenurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05508697774184528482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-74790298663300414262011-04-21T08:33:27.396-07:002011-04-21T08:33:27.396-07:00Rory, think of it as a warning instead. How dedica...Rory, think of it as a warning instead. How dedicated are you to philosophy? If you want to make it your life, then become an academic philosopher.<br /><br />My philosopher is rather dissatisfied with the whole process and plans to look for a position where he doesn't have to worry about tenure and such. Since I plan to pursue my Ph.D. and become a professional academic in the near future, he can afford to do what he wants.katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06917172986615727671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-2026376623041189322011-04-21T08:29:41.174-07:002011-04-21T08:29:41.174-07:00Man, thanks for your responses guys.
Way to bum m...Man, thanks for your responses guys.<br /><br />Way to bum me out. :TTenurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05508697774184528482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-51588313057856813212011-04-21T06:43:03.233-07:002011-04-21T06:43:03.233-07:00Anonymous 21:22, That is a good suggestion! The MA...Anonymous 21:22, That is a good suggestion! The MA problem is very post-worthy.katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06917172986615727671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-12157522622399451242011-04-20T21:22:36.620-07:002011-04-20T21:22:36.620-07:00Katie, I wonder your take on those of us in the MA...Katie, I wonder your take on those of us in the MA program where we are both in graduate school AND applying to PhD programs. Seems like a very special level of hell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-54468526003643918152011-04-20T20:57:23.862-07:002011-04-20T20:57:23.862-07:00My philosopher just finished the grad application ...My philosopher just finished the grad application process and it was exactly as you said! He was always on the grad cafe and whogotin and would report to me exactly which days certain schools sent out their acceptances.<br /><br />As for the rest of the life, it sounds like the life of most academic-track people, not just philosophers. Understandably, chances of getting a job in a different field may be a little higher, but there is still the constant stress of writing papers, applying for grant money, and proving yourself to be worth the position that you currently have.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15597948862381157406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-10349120642934969082011-04-20T20:56:08.102-07:002011-04-20T20:56:08.102-07:00Yep, if you're an aspiring grad student/academ...Yep, if you're an aspiring grad student/academic, do not deceive yourself. The job market is worse now than it's ever been and they've been pumping out PhDs in droves for the last 20 years, so it's not going to get better. You're lucky if you can get sessional work. Not to mention that if you decide to give up academia and go back into the private sector, no one wants to hire a PhD level philosopher, regardless of your skills. You've been out of the work force for too long, you're perceived as either too qualified for permanent employment or simply too academic. Whatever you do, don't mention your PhD on your résumé (but then you face the problem of accounting for your activity during that period of your life...)<br /><br />Absolutely stay away from humanities grad school unless you have great funding at a top 20 department with an excellent placement record.Heckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16853554291894034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-54742973118986302512011-04-20T18:27:19.298-07:002011-04-20T18:27:19.298-07:00I think you forgot the part about being super-brok...I think you forgot the part about being super-broke for a long time because the philosopher has to relocate 2000 miles across the country twice in a year for said postdoc/lecturer/VAP/TT position to various locations that do not have any jobs for the non-philosopher.<br /><br />But: Despite being a demoralized and mentally ill recovering alcoholic with no money, no credit, and friends all around the country who I get to see once every year or two, at best, I've got a cool job that I love *and* actually uses that silly degree that I went to school for. I honestly couldn't ask for anything better. Win!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-32004422298402424022011-04-20T17:22:41.386-07:002011-04-20T17:22:41.386-07:00I am writing a funding proposal and personal state...I am writing a funding proposal and personal statement right now. Ironically, my Dante is on the bed on the other side of the room. I may go and check who Virgil takes us to meet in my particular circle of hell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-60446337283916857152011-04-20T13:48:39.379-07:002011-04-20T13:48:39.379-07:00I think the anonymous poster is right; the job sea...I think the anonymous poster is right; the job search phase is even worse than you've described (I sincerely wish your philosopher luck with it). <br /><br />I came out of a unranked program and got a tenure-track job as an ABD student after my fourth year, but I AM THE EXCEPTION, NOT THE RULE (and it was 100% luck for me, because I'm a mediocre philosopher, at best, but happen to have graduate degrees in other fields that helped me land this job). Also, my job is at a very small community college in the middle of nowhere (fortunately, it is exactly what I want, but, again, EXCEPTION, NOT RULE).<br /><br />I'm at the end of my first year teaching, and I have never put more hours into any job I've held. I've averaged 16 hours a day, seven days a week for almost 10 months now. I have to admit, though, I FREAKIN' LOVE IT. It's hard; there is very little family time, but I love my students, my colleagues, my administration, and my work. Eventually, I'll be able to slow down (a little; I've observed those who've been around longer), which I'm looking forward to, but tenure is pretty much a given in community colleges as long as you're not a slacker.<br /><br />It's a very tough job. People will accuse your philosopher of being an armchair academic who doesn't know anything, but it's a great profession, especially when you have a great partner (as I have and as Katie definitely seems to be to "her philosopher").<br /><br />Great post. Thanks for helping non-philosophers understand us.Wesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6014309183503962416.post-71363989525590657432011-04-20T12:00:34.196-07:002011-04-20T12:00:34.196-07:00Anonymous, Well said! I do need to do a post about...Anonymous, Well said! I do need to do a post about the job search, about which I have heard many horrific stories. I thought it was intense enough to make it its own post (I should have said something in the post about it).katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06917172986615727671noreply@blogger.com